Zenaida Yanowsky 2025

Zenaida Yanowsky

Guest Repetiteur & Artistic Lead Aud Jebson Young Dancers Programme, The Royal Ballet

Interviewed by David Bain
American International Church, Thu 26th Jun, 2025

After David's welcome and brief discussion of the pronunciation of her name, our guest said Zen was fine! She began by telling us about her three 'hats' – coach to Royal Ballet principals, artistic lead for Aud Jebsen young artists, in charge of the programme for the year and nurturing the students, and principal coach for the third year (pre-professionals) at the Royal Ballet School. She often felt like a mouse dashing from one building to another. David mentioned that when Yuhui Choe and Ryoichi Hirano joined as apprentices, nobody knew what to do with them. Zen said the programme has now been going for 15 years, taking a number of students graduating from the School and an award winner from the Prix de Lausanne. The system is the same, but what she wanted was to provide a more nurturing role than just having them as company members. At the School there is already a connection with the company with Christmas performances and corps de ballet work from their second year. But from the Prix they normally have no experience of that so it's a crash course in company work. Zen herself had experienced that, coming from the Canary Islands and joining the Paris Opera company where everyone knew each other and she felt very disconnected, not quite understanding what they wanted from her, what her place was in the company and how to behave. So, she is very aware and wants to help especially those who have no company background. Starting three years ago, she tried different approaches and this year they have an established programme, she sees them once a week when they do class together and it's their safe space, then three days a week they do solos, pas de deux, variations, and rep. Once in the company they're lucky if they get to hold a spear - but they should continue with these roles and working on partnering skills. She tries to keep it all ticking over, so they are ready to go on when called. Normally as an apprentice you're not cast so you might get a last-minute call to dance with someone very experienced when understandably they get very nervous and overwhelmed. While there'll always be an aspect of that, Zen is trying to minimise the effect, so they feel more comfortable. So far it has been a success and the Director and staff have noticed the difference and how successfully they are able to perform.

Zen was invited post-Covid to join the School as the artistic collaborator/coach with third years. They wanted someone to be a bit more like a company coach, so the students got used to that sort of coaching, different from technical corrections which they already had, and focussing more on the artistic side. She is a bridge between the company and school so those who go into the company will know her and feel more comfortable. Also, those who don't go into a company will understand the sort of coaching they might have. She asks the same of them as she asks of the principals so she's not changing her ways (well, perhaps a little more gentle!) but expectations are slightly lower as students can change quickly but aren't so good at retention, so repetitions are more necessary. The expectations are different, but her delivery is very similar.

The Company and the School have completely different rep throughout the year but if she is coaching in the company and sees some of the dancers are lacking certain skills in certain pieces Zen will work on them at the school so the students know what to do when they go into a company. These skills are very important. Normally it's to do with partnering or technicality which can otherwise bypass them. For example, ladies hopping on point. If they don't do that throughout the year, it's difficult to perform Bluebird in Sleeping Beauty when they suddenly need that skill. In Swan Lake some of the males dancing the Prince find aspects of partnering hard. She wants to ensure the next generation have those skills. Kevin O'Hare doesn't ask Zen's opinion of who he should take into the Company but rather says who do you like? Her answer is to give reasons why she likes them but also what they are lacking. In December Kevin told everyone they were staying apart from Airi Kobayashi, the Prix de Lausanne dancer, who is going to BRB. They try to confirm as early as possible because otherwise the students need to go to auditions which mostly start in January/February and it does depend on how many vacancies there are in the company. Kevin is amazing, so kind and would do anything to make sure they get a job. He makes calls and goes out of his way to make sure they can audition.

Zen is currently working with the principals on the Queen of Hearts in Alice. It's a joy revisiting the role but it's interesting as she feels she's a better coach when she's not actually performed a role as it gives a different perspective. She can see and recognize their suffering so becomes very empathetic and involved with the dancers rather than the dancing. She loves trying to make it work for others. You have to have pointers that need to be met but you choose your own path. She's had a blast doing pas de quatre with the Queen and going through the whole ballet asking what they are thinking and re-working particular parts if they don't come across. Having the time to do that is a gift. When Zen was working with Chris Wheeldon developing the role she was coming back from having her second child. He had started on the ballet a few months before, but she wasn't nearly ready (probably in labour!). The initial idea was brilliant - to have the shortest of dancers who would grow within the costume but when it opened a small dancer was inside. Leanne Benjamin was first cast but discussed with Chris her feeling that she wasn't right for this role. Zen returned to do Swan Lake, Chris saw her, said you're back and took her into the studio straight away. She came in three quarters of the way through the process and had to learn Act I and bits of Act III in two days. Then he worked only on Act III to finish the ballet. He suggested a couple of things and then left her on her own to be creative as he knew he could trust her while he was trying to finish the ballet. She would have ideas but would need a little more time to work on it. Every day he'd see her, ask if everything was OK and perhaps make some little changes but she had such fun before going into the studio to work on his vision of the character. Later Zen felt the other Queens were trying to replicate what she did. Laura Morera was second and Tamara Rojo third cast. They were absolutely phenomenal, and she loved the differences as everyone brought something new to the table which Chris was very happy with. Sometimes one of them would come up with a gag and he'd say let's keep that, but he'd stipulate certain things and was right to do so. Afterwards he took the piece to the National Ballet of Canada and when it came back there were slightly different gags. Zen tries to keep it the same while giving it a different flavour. She loved the way Lauren Cuthbertson did the role differently this time, softer and very funny. Unfortunately, Natalia Osipova didn't perform but Zen said she was unique and she loved all the rehearsals with Natasha. She'd ask what she should be thinking at a certain point and absolutely get it. With Claire Calvert and Itziar Mendizabal they have made a few changes which were necessary to avoid being a copy which is no fun.

She also coached The Two of Us which of course she'd never done so learnt it from the video. She spent many hours in the studio getting her body sufficiently into the technical aspects of the movement, so she could coach it. The piece was all about freedom. Robert Fairchild who was the original guy in An American in Paris came in and he'd also done The Two of Us in Mexico so had a sense of what it was supposed to be. It was very interesting as they would both show the steps, and incredible how quickly you get back into the dance groove. Robbie would say let's dance it together, but Zen didn't feel up to it! David asked what happened to the sound/singing on the first night. Zen said one of the toilets on the third floor flooded and the water went all the way down to the sound department so there was no sound at all at 3pm – absolutely nothing, even front of house. By 7pm they managed to get some sound, but it wasn't the same, as each instrument had to be individually miked, so the sound projected to the auditorium but there was no backstage sound and no front of house calls. There were Chinese whispers backstage, but Zen missed the first half because she didn't hear the five-minute calls. So, it was a difficult night, the second night was similar and by the third night it was sorted. The singer knew, and had recorded with, Joni Mitchell but it wasn't her. The dancers had started the teaching process with Joni's recording, then an orchestral recording, then a piano rehearsal and then the live orchestra. They yo-yo'd so much with sound that in the end the dancers could do it with Zen singing! It makes a difference having the orchestra on stage, creating a different environment so you feel more like a team. They enjoyed it because the sound came straight at them which isn't normally the case when they have speakers to bounce the sound back on the stage as otherwise, they wouldn't hear the music. All the dancers really loved having the orchestra on stage, and vice versa.

This season they had the Balanchine triple bill which was a challenge for Zen as she was in charge of the Serenade principals with Sam Raine in charge of the corps. It was the first time ever the Balanchine Trust had allowed a non-Balanchine person to put on their ballets. They are tough and very clear and specific which is as it should be. Pat Neary, who was retiring, took care of certain ballets and was overseeing the whole thing. They taught it and rehearsed it, and she came to put on the fairy dust. Zen thoroughly enjoyed the experience. She'd not done it for years - the last time she did the Waltz lady was in 1999. She remembered some bits of it, more than she thought, but as she was teaching the whole of it to three women and two men she had to go from scratch. To prepare, Zen watches the video for a long time, then writes it down step by step, where the hand and arm go, through the whole work in her form of shorthand. Then she puts numbers with the counts. She spent hours in the studio on her own actually doing it with the counts which all took a month of three or four hours' work a day. It was fresher for Sam who'd done it about 10 years before. It'll come back next season when it will be much easier as the preparation is all done. All the principals were doing it for the first time, except for Lauren who had done a different part previously, so it was new to everybody. She was not in charge of anything else (ie not responsible for teaching and coaching) but dotted in and out of coaching other works.

Why was it always the practice to have a small Cinderella? Zen had no idea but said Nutcracker was the same. and Sleeping Beauty who was supposed to be 16. Size should not be an issue as it's about being an artist, not a model. You don't have to look like a child but rather like a young woman and she hates to see someone cast because they look child-like.

Other roles she's enjoyed working on? She's enjoyed everything and it's always a challenge. As she said earlier, she feels she's a better coach for roles she's not performed so doesn't have the emotional attachment. She's better at making decisions on how to make it look its best and bring the best out of the dancers. That was what was in her head as a dancer. She's never danced Marie Vetsera but so enjoyed working on it and bringing the best out of the dancers. She's also coached the White Rabbit (and knew she could do it!). She'd suggest trying to make a more natural movement in different ways. Everyone comes with different abilities and skills, and the coach has to bring those out. The art is the way you present the steps, not changing them but changing the dynamic.

At the end of season Kevin lets them know what they will be working on the following season. For Like Water For Chocolate she was a bit apprehensive to come on board, as it was made just after she retired so she'd not seen it nor was she involved in any way. She explained her feelings to Chris, but he said she knew what he wanted so she agreed. After that there is Giselle, and she's really looking forward to the Paul Lightfoot and Sol Leon piece which is closing the season. They are two people she's followed throughout her career and always wanted to work with as a dancer but never got the chance, so now is really looking forward to being in the studio with them.

Zen comes from a family of dancers so it was inevitable that she should follow on, even though a little reluctantly at first, but it got her in the end. She spent 18 months at Paris Opera then came to the Royal Ballet. She often looks back at the time it took to get to different stages of her career in relation to what is happening now. When she joined the company Darcey Bussell was 25 but had been a principal for some time, Viviana Durante was another young principal. Also, some of the men were principals at a young age but she took way longer, till the age of 27/28. For her it was the right time vis á vis maturity and now she reflects on how it grounded her to progress more slowly which is important. Alina Cojacaru was also a principal at 22 but she deserved it as she was amazing, so everyone was pleased. Marianela Nunez took a little longer, but they all knew she was heading towards that position. People say sometimes it happens too soon but sometimes it is the right age. David quoted Ryo who went to Japan with the company as an apprentice, and five years later when David went with the supporters group he overheard Christopher Carr asking Ryo what he was doing this time and he replied exactly the same as five years ago. Zen said he did have injuries which needed sorting out and then had to get the working balance right but once promoted he was phenomenal from day one.

Zen has worked with many choreographers. With Chris she also created Paulina in The Winter's Tale. They started the first day with a read through with some actors from the National Theatre, provided by Nicholas Hytner. At the time she hadn't read the play, only the synopsis, but thought she'd enjoy it. Then Paulina's part was read aloud, and she knew it was a role she really wanted. But once in the studio the speech was nowhere to be seen and Zen wondered what she was doing just walking around the stage in a gorgeous dress with a child. She'd heard the monologue and felt it was one of the most important in Shakespeare's works so was disappointed and thought of taking herself out of the production. Chris realised and suggested they go to the studio for a couple of hours, which was when the whole thing started to work, and he created a beautiful thing for her so she was very pleased. Often there are two principals in ballets, and the others are just brushing people's hair but she didn't want that, it wasn't what she'd heard in the reading and she wanted those other characters to be as powerful.

Zen had a long collaboration with Will Tuckett creating his ballets, some of which won awards. She was called Will's muse, but she thinks it's more because she said yes to everything, and still does, so was quite useful! She's always been attracted to creative people, which was why she loved working with Ashley Page and all those incredible choreographers, and Will was the same with a vision and she was ready to provide that vision. It's the same with Chris Wheeldon. Will created tons of ballets and she closed her career with one of his works as it was really important to her to wrap up her career where she began, although she really started with Ashley and wanted to do Fearful Symmetries again! Will was a very important person in her career as he used her so much for his work. One piece she really loved was Elizabeth – who wouldn't love to do that fantastic role? She recalled years ago on tour in New York, Zen saw a South African woman doing a monologue on her life. It could have been cheesy, but it wasn't. She was just retelling her story of life in South Africa and ending up in the USA. She played all the different roles, coming in and out of character all the time, and it was so well written, and Zen thought that's exactly what she wanted to do. For years she'd been bugging Will to do something meaty on a small scale and eventually he found it in Elizabeth. It's the story of Queen Elizabeth I, told only through her love letters. It was scripted entirely by Alasdair Middleton, using a baritone and a cellist, with the music put together by Martin Yates. There were five dancers, three of whom spoke and two, including Zen, who didn't. It was fascinating as she'd known nothing about Elizabeth beforehand. She wrote so much poetry, was so passionate, and it was a beautiful work, taking us from her accession to her death.

Zen's also made films. Channel 4 was making Dance for the Camera which was phenomenal. It was a series of subsidised dance works which were filmed and shown on C4. There were five choreographers who had to apply, Will filled in the form and was accepted. He made a duet for Zen and Adam Cooper together with the Quay brothers, American animators living in England but whose background was from the Czech Republic. They made wonderful 2D animation, weird but phenomenally beautiful. Zen loved working with them during the three days' filming. A couple of years later Will filled in the form and was successful again. He made the Tales of Hoffman with Zen, Adam and Tamara Rojo. It was fantastic and so much fun. This time filming took a week, and she felt it as the body wasn't used to it. Suddenly they'd come up close, then take about an hour to get the camera at the right angle, then you'd start to move, and they'd say wait as the lighting wasn't quite right and you cooled off for another hour. It was hard but made you understand what filming was all about. She's also worked with Kim Brandstrup on Leda and the Swan and another piece in the Linbury, all for the camera. By the time she did the last piece just before retiring, she'd learned the craft and knew what was needed so didn't have to put as much strain on her body. Now she encourages students to do that as part of their journey.

Questions: does Zen feel coaching is one part inspiration, one part perspiration, one part pushing? How do you get the best from each young dancer? She said junior dancers come with very little baggage, so are more of a blank canvas, you have to add colour and dynamic. She throws as much as possible at them and some will stick. Also, they might not get it straight away, or only a very little, but in a few years’ time the penny will drop and they'll realise what she meant. With principals it's very different. Depending on the person, if she can strip them out completely, she untangles things that need addressing and leaves the strands hanging so then they start plaiting again. Not everyone likes that system and not everyone can work that way so now she undoes certain things but not all, rather than starting from scratch.

Natalia and Lauren had both spoken recently about spontaneity and not knowing what will happen from show to show. Zen said it was super important, and you couldn't get more spontaneous than Natalia and Lauren! They are so in the moment. Zen herself felt she always had options. It drives her crazy when people pre-empt so much and she wonders why they would do that, but it does take courage to be spontaneous.

Asked if it was her brother's idea or hers to dance together, Zen said it was hers. As youngsters they'd danced together in competitions but then they joined different companies and never did so again. Her idea was to do something with him at the end of her career, and, although Elizabeth might not be the right thing, thought they could give it a try. She found it weird and didn't like it. She couldn't be flirting with her brother and was struggling through rehearsals while he was always very professional and did what he had to do. Once on stage they laughed a lot and it did work.

We don't get a lot of triple bills these days whereas there are lots of repetitions of Romeo and Juliet. Zen said she is aware that ticket sales are an issue these days though the ballet does a lot better than the opera. A new marketing strategy is to advertise through social media and influencers which is unprecedented for the opera. The ballet company are pressed for rehearsal time, but it is difficult for the dancers to keep Romeo and Juliet fresh and ticking over.

David said we started our season with Chris Saunders who spoke about heritage, which should include anyone who's worked with the company for a long time which doesn't seem to happen. Zen said she couldn't respond to that but thought we can look back or look forward, but each director will have a vision as she's found in her career. Anthony Dowell was about heritage and looking forward, then Ross Stretton, which was all looking forward, Monica more about looking back and now Kevin who began with a bit of each but now moving forward.

David thanked Zen and said how delightful it was to talk to her. She then told us that she had that day become a British citizen (can't be late anymore and will have to queue!) which elicited much applause.

Report written by Liz Bouttell and edited by Zenaida Yanowsky and David Bain.

Currency

Currency

Search our website

Zenaida Yanowsky 2025

Zenaida Yanowsky

Guest Repetiteur & Artistic Lead Aud Jebson Young Dancers Programme, The Royal Ballet

Currency

Currency