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• Anna Rose O'Sullivan
• Caspar Lench
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• Giacomo Rovero
• Heewon Moon
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• Zenaida Yanowsky

Leo Dixon & Giacomo Rovero

First soloist & Soloist, The Royal Ballet

Interviewed by David Bain
American International Church, Mon 03rd Mar, 2025

 

Our guests began by talking about Onegin, in which they are now both performing the role of Lensky. Leo, who was in the corps in all three acts in 2019 and previously had been a flunky as a student, said it was nice to progress through to one of the main characters. It was the same for Giacomo who agreed it was great to be performing Lensky this time. They started rehearsing in December with Jane Bourne teaching and when she left Jillian Vanstone took over. Stuart Cassidy also came in to coach towards the end of the process, and Reid Anderson was there again to put the finishing touches and the little details. It's special working with him as he knows how he wants the ballet put across so it was about learning how to perform that particular ballet which is quite theatrical rather than having a natural look which they are more used to. He was quite clear on what he wants the audience to see and how he wanted them to perform with the audience in mind. One of Reid's main points was that particular sort of theatricality.

Leo agreed, saying it was different from the MacMillan ballets where they have more scope to be themselves within the character, but Reid wanted very specific moments to be obvious to the audience, say when Lensky is getting angry before challenging Onegin to a duel, by facing out so the audience know what's going on. Reid has been setting the ballet for so long, he has a wealth of knowledge of every single role, he spots every little detail and knows how everything should be which is quite incredible. David mentioned when Laura Morera, who is currently rehearsing some casts in Romeo and Juliet, was talking to us recently she said there were some things which should be done in a particular way while still allowing for individual interpretation – was Reid like that? To a certain extent, they said. He knows every dancer can offer something different, but he wants his version more than we are used to, he know exactly where you should be at a specific time and who you're interacting with. In Romeo and Juliet,for example, you build a camaraderie in the studio between the three male characters. Reid's casting is very specific, for example for Lensky it needs to be a particular type of dancer with a specific look and we aren't used to that.

Their partners as Olga. Giacomo is dancing with Viola Pantuso who is a few years younger than him and has only been in the company three years. She has a very different, lovely, fresh energy, and is an incredible, confident dancer which is great to be up against. She also has a spontaneity which Giacomo feels he may have lost, having been waiting longer for bigger roles, so it was a very special process to dance with her. Leo's partner is Anna Rose O'Sullivan, a principal who has done the role before and has lots of general experience, which gave him a sense of security. She had tips from last time and was very caring towards him, giving him guidance, knowing it was a big moment for him. He felt very lucky, and Anna Rose was joy to dance with. Speaking of spontaneity, Giacomo said sometimes things need to be more or less the same from show to show, especially with a technically challenging role like Lensky, so you know what's coming. He's only done one show so far but thought within the acting and drama it would be possible for some spontaneity, while for the technical parts he prefers some consistency although that's not always possible – things happen, and you have to adapt in the moment. It was a tricky one as in a role like Lensky there's security in keeping things similar but at the same time it's a privilege to go on that journey when with every show you can explore and develop into the artist you want to be. You give yourself the chance to grow by not doing exactly the same thing in every time. David mentioned that some principals have said they never know what their ballerina is going to do from show to show which makes the role more interesting. Giacomo said even with his one show it was a great surprise to them all how different the show was from the rehearsals. It forces you to be present which comes from having an audience. Reid talked about reacting rather than acting so you're not stuck but react in a slightly different way if your partner has done things a little differently and this can add to the performance. Leo said that, as dancers, they are aware of themselves and sometimes feel really 'present' and reacting to what's happening in that moment can provide a more 'real' experience on stage.

Tomorrow there's a stage call for Romeo and Juliet.Leo is doing Benvolio again and will be in the show tomorrow night, so he's not involved with the general. He's in Matthew Ball and Yasmine Naghdi's cast. Giacomo is also on tomorrow and is probably doing mandolin and ballroom scenes but has his debut as Benvolio in Friday's matinee. It's been a very different process from Lensky when they had lots of rehearsal time whereas everyone knows Romeo and Juliet so there's less time to rehearse and dive into the character. While he is a main character, Benvolio isn't as important as a role such as Lensky and he's had to find the character more for himself rather than being advised what to do. There's always a bit of anxiety when it comes from you as there's more chance to get it wrong. Besides Matt's cast, Leo is in Calvin Richardson's later on and also has one show with Steven McRae. This time his main focus has been with Matt's cast and the emphasis is on opening night, so they've built up a camaraderie along with Joseph Sissens as Mercutio. With that in mind he had a stage call with Calvin's cast when they'd not even seen each other in the studio so it was a bit more touch and go and spontaneous! His first rehearsal with Steven's cast had been that day Steven has done the role a lot so it all slots into place and you quickly get a feel of what that cast wants. It's been good to experience these different casts. Giacomo's debut is with Vadim Muntagirov's Romeo and Francisco Serrano as Mercutio, and they are also doing the filming. Vadim has been away so there's not been a lot of time to work it all out, but they had a stage call recently and as both Vadim and Francisco have done the roles before, Giacomo is letting them lead him and he reacts and follows on. Also, he and Francisco were at school together so it's nice to have that personal relationship within the work.

They are also rehearsing the Balanchine Bill which is Symphony in C, Prodigal Son and Serenade. Giacomo is in the 1st movement of Symphony, and Leo is doing the principal in the 4th movement, and a servant friend in Prodigal Son. (In fact, because Steven McRae was injured, Leo danced the Son, not the friend) He'd never seen the ballet so didn't quite know what to expect but the more they've worked on it the more he's discovered it's quite a special ballet. They've been studying an old video of Carlos Acosta and seeing that is incredible. Pat Neary has been here, and she's quite a character. It's her final season before retirement. She knows everything inside out so knows what she wants and it's a fun process. She still does daily class and jumps and at 83 that's impressive. Cesar Corrales will dance the opening night of Prodigal Son.

Then there's the Wheeldon bill. About two weeks ago Jason Fowler came in to work on Fool's Paradise, which the company hasn't done for about 10 years so it's new to most people. Giacomo's doing a trio within the ballet and so far, it's very nice and clearly recognisable as a Wheeldon ballet. They're also on stage with Light of Passage so there's a lot going on at the moment. They did Flight Patternin 2016 and no one at the time envisaged it becoming a full-length work. It was quite something for the company to have Crystal Pite come in and create and they all felt really connected to it as part of their careers. Doing it now, they realise there's only about half of the original cast left as there's been a large turnover in the company. It's such a touching ballet and every time they do it, it seems so relevant to something that's going on in the world and it's a sad reflection of the state of things. They are all big fans of the ballet. Giacomo was also involved in the creative process, and it's been a very different experience. Sometimes in the ballet world you feel self- involved, so much focussed on how you are doing and your soloist roles, and you can lose the aspect of community, dancing with others and performing for the greater good. They felt part of something which was more powerful in a different and specific way from their usual work. They are at the very back of the group of 35 people on stage so it's a very different experience from the principal roles but still as special in its own way. It's also a good reminder to them as dancers to step back and not feel so comfortable.

The day after his Lensky debut, Giacomo went back to Italy to perform in a gala in his hometown of Piacenza. Hikaru Kobayashi was trying to promote her project of taking Royal Ballet dancers to perform galas in different theatres in Italy, and eventually approached the theatre in his hometown. They said fine but Giacomo has to be the star! With his connection with the city, which is quite provincial, everyone is involved in his career, and he is always happy to dance at home. He also contributed to the organisation of the event. The timing was very overwhelming, with his Lensky debut on the Saturday, flying out on Sunday morning followed by a quick rehearsal in the afternoon and then an evening performance. He wouldn't do that again, but it was very special. Most of the audience know him or know of him so it was a unique experience, if again slightly overwhelming. Casting was mainly done by Hikaru although she asked who he'd like as a partner, so he danced with Sae Maeda. Hikaru wanted to keep the cast quite young so Viola was there, Ella Newton Severnigni, Sumina Sasaki, Annette Buvoli whose father was born in Piacenza and still has relatives there, Marco Masciari, Aiden O'Brien, Martin Diaz, and Harris Bell. Giacomo opened with Blessed Spirits, and they then did Raymonda Act III without the character dances. It was a challenge getting 10 people together in a studio and teaching it to themselves. He also danced the Chroma pas de deux with Sae. It was a lot of extra work, especially just now when they are so busy, but it was his first experience of helping to put on something like that and it was very rewarding. It's hard at this stage of his career to find the time to get away and do these things so he probably wouldn't do it again for the moment. On tour at the end of season Giacomo will be back in Italy. He thinks they will do Rhapsody so he'll probably be one of the six men, and also Ashton's Swan Lake pas de quatre but it's not been officially confirmed. Leo isn't going on tour and thinks those who went to Jacob's Pillow last season won't be top priority this year.

Leo then spoke about Jacob's Pillow. They didn't know a lot about it beforehand, but discovered it's tucked away in a mountain forest. They were driving along wondering where they were going and suddenly there was a stage in the middle of the forest, with an incredible scene out to the landscape which was very beautiful. The indoor stage had been recently refurbished following a fire, so it was a nice new space. He did Chris Wheeldon's For Fourand a new piece by Wayne MacGregor which was quite exciting as it was the premier and the American audience were hyped up for something new. The indoor theatre was an old, converted barn, with doors at the back which opened and Wayne used it as a back drop, so in daytime it was sunny or rainy and at night there were lights shining on trees so it was an exciting premier to be involved with. The audience seemed to go mad for the Royal Ballet being there. It was a big deal for them as they don't often have resident companies visiting. Kevin O'Hare had always wanted to go there so he was very happy that it happened, but it was a lot of work with 13 shows in five days, doubles and triples, which for them is quite a lot. They'd have an indoor show, then an outdoor and back indoors again.

Leo and Giacomo are now practised in microphone work as they'd both played the part of Adam in MaddAddam. They're used to dancing but speech was something different, so they felt a bit cautious and it was quite a challenge but something exciting to do, Wayne sat with them with the script and very soon said why don't you stand in the middle of the room and say it. They forgot their lines and voices cracked but they had a good time, and it was a special experience. They wondered if they should dance or speak first, but they danced first which really helped to get rid of some of the nerves before the speech began. It's a completely different muscle that you're using, and they aren't used to using their voices, so they had to learn how to get something across to make it quite clear for the audience. Giacomo said it was a good opportunity to explore a different area of performance. Wayne was good as he understood they were taking on something very foreign to them and said there were two lines he really cared about but for the rest not to worry if they forgot so that helped them relax. He also was happy for them to try it out but if it was too much pressure said they could pre-record it and this helped. Also, no one else really knew the speech so if they made a mistake it probably wouldn't have been noticed!

Wayne's ballets. They've been involved in Untitled, Woolf Works, Dante, and the Chroma pas de deux in various galas, so they have a good understanding of the way he works. It is exciting for them that Wayne's works are very varied, the language is quite similar, but the context is very different. Each act in Dante or Woolf Worksis so different that you can tap into different parts of your technique which is fun. Giacomo felt a freedom with Wayne's work he'd not felt before on stage. He's not super-specific and allows you to have a lot of freedom with movement and interpretation. He has a very fair idea of what his image of the piece is but is very open to a change of movement, and it being different every night. Within the movement and structure there's space for them to explore and Giacomo experienced that with Dante the first time and tapped into a different way of dancing, bringing back the spontaneity and exuberance of youth which can get lost through training and age. It provides a nice opportunity to get into a different way of moving and you can use that within classical works as well and it helped him to explore a full range of movement and expression. Leo thinks Wayne likes to see two casts do the same role in slightly different ways. Both he and Giacomo brought something different and as they rehearsed separately, they didn't see each other until on stage when they produced two slightly different versions of the ballet.

Earlier in the season they had Alice, Cinderella,and the Mixed Programme. Giacomo missed Alice as he was injured at the beginning of the season. Leo said it's always a challenge to start the season with a huge ballet like Alice which has so many moving parts for every department, but the company comes together straight away after the summer, and you meet the wide-eyed dancers who've just joined and it's a nice community way to start the season. Leo missed Nutcracker which he really likes to do at Christmas, but Cinderella made a good substitute which they've done before. Giacomo's injury was a small tear in the fascia and ruptured biceps so missed the first run of Alice and the quadruple bill. MaddAddam was his first thing back, which was nice as it felt more familiar and comfortable, then Cinderella, which they've also done before and nice not to have something completely new and daunting and then came the build-up to Onegin. He has two more shows of Lensky when it comes back.

Turning to their start in ballet, Leo said he grew up in Plymouth and started dancing aged three, as his three older sisters went to class. He was at the back moving around and the teacher invited him to have a go and was very encouraging. The teaching was split between a man and a woman, so it was nice to have a male role model. He felt included and not isolated as some boys have found being with all girls in the school. He didn't get into White Lodge and aged 11 he went to Elmhurst for five years on a scholarship. When he arrived, the director was just leaving and Desmond Kelly was taking over. As a student he could appear quite scary but as Leo got to know him, he was very supportive and a really gentle soul. He really cared about ballet, would spot talent and nurture it and invest in people he thought worth it. He was a great mentor, and Leo will always feel grateful to him. When he told Desmond he was leaving as he'd been offered a place at the Upper School which he thought he'd accept, Desmond wasn't too pleased and just said OK you can leave now. It was quite tense, but Desmond called him back later and said he understood.

Giacomo always moved and danced around at home and his parents sensed he wanted to dance in some way. He began with gymnastics for a couple of years, but it did nothing for him. He then saw an end of year ballet show which his friend was in and knew that's what he wanted. He started taking classes and the teacher said he was good and should take it more seriously, doing competitions with the thought of getting into a school. He went to Youth America Grand Prix at 13 and got a couple of scholarships through that, ending up at the Hamburg Ballet School for two years. After that he did a summer school here and auditioned for the Upper School. Hamburg was a completely different experience from Upper School. He'd been in a very small year group, and it still had a small ballet school feel to it and not as competitive as the Upper School. He had a really good time there, the teachers were very nice, and it felt like a family with a great atmosphere, but something was missing training-wise. There weren't many boys, so he lacked the sense of knowing where he was at technically and where he needed to be. That led him to the Upper School as he felt he needed to push himself further. The Hamburg school was great, and Giacomo was just sorry he never worked with John Neumeier which would have been a great experience. So, he came to the two week summer school at the end of which there was an opportunity to do class and an audition for the Upper School. There were a couple of spots available, and Jay Jolley offered him a place. It had always been his dream so it felt very special, but it was a quick turnaround for him as this was July and school began in September. For Leo the school itself was an attraction but after five years in Birmingham he knew he wanted the London experience. When he joined it was an eye-opener - he was in a strong year and the level was so high. It was amazing in his first year to see those other incredible dancers, representing the Royal Ballet School. Lots had been through the whole system while others were from all over the world, so it was quite inspiring to see this melting-pot of talent. The improvements over a year were also quite inspiring. His first teacher was Meelis Pakri, then David Peden and Jay Jolley and others in the final year. It was a difficult time for the school as Gailene Stock passed away at the end of their first year. This was a big deal for everyone and Gary Norman, her husband, was still there but Leo loved every moment. Meelis was a hard task master, a big guy from Estonia who had danced in America while they were all skinny teenagers who couldn't lift anything. They'd be doing press-ups and if you did something he didn't like he was notorious for sending you out, but Leo conceded they needed that discipline as they were quite a boisterous year group and he made them realise this was serious. He later came back to teach class at the company which was surreal as so many of the guys connected with him and realised what a great impression he'd made.

Giacomo talked of transitioning from Hamburg to the Upper School. It wasn't a great time for him. He'd come from a small ballet school in Italy where he was the only guy and in Hamburg he was in a small group and considered top of his year so the Upper School was a reality shift, realising he couldn't just rely on natural talent or lack of competition. It took him by surprise which he was looking for but in the end, it was eye-opening and he knew if he was serious he'd need to step up to a different level. In Hamburg he was younger and was looked after, whereas he felt alone in the Upper School, disconnected and detached from the teachers with whom it was a different relationship. He felt all the time it was a test rather than a nurturing of talent. That was the perception he struggled with, and it forced him to decide whether he really wanted to carry on. He was suddenly aware of being away from home which hadn't hit him before, and he had to make a decision whether to stay or leave having moments when he thought he would go. So school was very tough in that sense, feeling anxious and nervous going in every day, and he still felt it when he joined the company, wondering if it was right for him. It taught him so much about the world of ballet and in general as maybe he'd been a bit too sheltered, so it made him find that strength within himself rather than relying on external sources. David commented that the school obviously thought highly of him as he won our award in his second year, but Giacomo didn't feel that at the time. It was only in the third-year things became clearer and he thought he might get into the company when he was given more roles, but the insecurity may have come from within him so he didn't feel that belief from the teachers.

Leo knew at Christmas in the third year that he had a contract while booking auditions mainly in Europe. Once they had their contracts, they didn't do the auditions but still went to the cities as a little celebration! They were the second year of the apprenticeship scheme but the first in the new system and it gave all six of them a safety blanket, so they didn't feel so isolated as previously only one or two had got into the company. All the dancers Leo joined with are still in the company which is a nice feeling of growing together.

Similarly, Giacomo heard in December that he had a contract, and it was a dream come true moment. After the trials of school, it was very special to get into the company when he re-found his identity within his career, so it's been great. Of the group who originally joined, they lost a couple on the way and four made it through. You have to prove yourself and show you're the right fit for the company but even if not, it's still good experience.

For Leo a highlight was Crystal Pite's new creation which really made him feel part of the company which he'd always wanted to join, and they all wanted to work with her. Another highlight was his debut as Nephew. The first time he was cast to dance with Romany Pajdak but Covid intervened. They did the stage call and then it was taken away from them as they went back into lockdown so when it came round again it felt like a special moment. The last time Woolf Workswas on he did the role of Evans and there was something special about it, a stepping stone moment towards developing the artistry that he'd been searching for up till then. It made a big impact on Leo as a dancer, and similarly the role of Lensky. People have said his ballet has gone up a level since doing that role which is good to hear as this is what he felt, and Reid played a big part in that as he had so much to give. You can also take a lot from just watching him working with others. Giacomo said it was similar for him, but definitely Nephew was a highlight as it was his first principal role and it's such an iconic role and ballet within the company. He hadn't imagined doing it as he'd never been cover and Kevin hadn't mentioned it and suddenly, he was cast for a couple of performances so it really felt very special. Then Dante was one of Wayne's ballets when he rediscovered the reason why he loved dancing so much. Then through Dante and Nephew he was promoted so that felt like one big highlight. The depths of the journey of the Lensky character are something they don't come across very often and when you first join the company you don't get the meaty roles that teach you so much and how to be on stage. Lensky and acting around in Romeo and Juliet have taught him a lot of what it means to tell a story, and the company are very good at that but when you delve into a bigger or more dramatic story you really learn how to put it across and that stays with you so it's a highlight.

In answer to a question from the audience, Leo said he should have mentioned as a highlight performing in the Royal Opera's Death in Venice. It was an incredible experience. He didn't know what he was getting into at first and went in blind, not knowing the opera and having had few dealings with the opera company, but suddenly he was working with the choreographer, Lynne Page, creating the dance separately from everything else before going into full calls with the opera company. Leo didn't know the director, David McVicar, or his work, but suddenly when he saw him working felt the man really knew his stuff. He had incredible attention to detail which really blew Leo away. He knew everyone on stage and every little nuance, and he could embody things which people could take away and use. Also, the tenor Mark Padmore was such a gentle soul and as an artist on stage he was very giving to Leo. Their relationship in that opera was unique and could have been difficult to get right but he was very open to talking to Leo about it, making sure they were on the same page, and it was a really inspiring moment. He also got paid better!

Another audience question was how they prepare as Lensky for the challenge with the gloves. Leo said it's about discussing with your Onegin to make clear what each of you wants. You might have one idea, but he may see it differently. With Matt, he had done it before so knew what was coming and allowed Leo to do what he wanted - though he did want the slap to be real. Leo did it once in rehearsal and he said that was the minimum!

Giacomo agreed you have to talk to the other person. Cesar was very good and was clear in his head how he wanted to approach the role. He has more experience so a useful point of contact on how to navigate that moment, you go through it in your head and think how you would react in that moment, where the anger comes from and try to relate to that and find a way to make it feel real.

David gave big thanks to both our guests, saying it was always fascinating talking to dancers at different stages of their careers. They had talked to us before, Giacomo as a student and Leo in his second season so we looked forward to the next time, onwards and upwards!

Report written by Liz Bouttell and edited by Leo Dixon, Giacomo Rovero and David Bain.

© The Ballet Association 2025