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Petal Ashmole

Interviewed by David Bain
American International Church, Mon 20th May, 2024

 

David began by saying he had read Petal’s book which he found fascinating (you sound surprised, she commented!) though perhaps enjoyable wouldn’t be the right word because there are some very distressing periods she writes about.

First, Petal spoke about her background and how she got into dance. She was brought up in Perth, Western Australia, to adoring parents, a late baby of her mother who was in her 40s when Petal was born. Mother thought she should go to ballet class so she went at the age of three which was really too young but apparently she charmed everyone and loved it so carried on. There was a Russian teacher and ex Colonel de Basil dancer, Kira Bousloff, and Petal trained with her from 8 to 18 when she left Australia. It was the time of the birth of Australian ballet with Peggy van Praagh and Dame Margaret Scott who was heading up the school and along with other Perth youngsters Petal auditioned but was rejected which was devastating for both her and her mother. Her teacher felt otherwise and thought they were doing a watered down version of the RAD syllabus which wasn’t suitable for Petal who was ambitious and wilful and wouldn’t be reined in. As Petal had been trained by her in the Vaganova style she thought she should try elsewhere. She continued studying with her and aged 17 the Australian Ballet company arrived in Perth and the local talented students were invited to do class with the company. She thought she might have improved but again they didn’t like her so another big disappointment. This left Petal wondering where to go to dance in Australia and her mother was behind her, pushing her out of the nest. Being very keen to continue, she decided she had to go to England for real ballet. Her father was concerned - she was barely 18, going by herself on a huge ship, and not knowing anyone in London - so said she should work to raise her fare, leave enough with him to cover her return if necessary and take £100 and under those circumstances he would allow her to go. She turned 18 on 14 October and on 21 October 1965 she set sail for England on the Canberra. Now she is pleased she was rejected by Australian Ballet as it gave her great sympathy for the young dancers she’s worked with over the years, and particularly in the Royal Ballet. She’s helped them manage big disappointments and rejection as she was the teacher who’d been there and could support them as best she could with the knowledge she’d gained from personal experience.  

At the time a massive change was happening in London which was leading the world in music, and the young were changing things with girls’ skirts shorter and boys’ hair longer. The older generation were furious, but they were trail blazers and charging ahead the Pill and later Aids and London became the centre of the world for music and fashion.  Petal was almost in starvation mode but in a wonderful world. She had a terrible room in the basement of the Overseas Visitors Club with a single bed and centre light. The woman in charge said Australians were a problem, always wanting to take a bath - there were 14 bedsits and one bathroom! She recalled walking to Piccadilly Circus and seeing the statue of Eros and the huge flashing Coca Cola sign and knew she would make her home in this massive town. She had a great time and loved it.  Other well-known Australians were here at the time such as Barry Humphries, Germaine Greer, Arthur Boyd. She had no fear. She had a good technique but lots of other dancers had good technique as well. She didn’t get into a ballet company straight away, but auditioned for musicals, cabarets and in November for pantomime, and passed an audition for Aladdin in Stoke on Trent. She was very pleased with herself, although she knew nothing about the pantomime set up, and was given the number of a place to stay where she took a room for three weeks with no central heating and was told by the landlady that she could have one bath a week, she’d leave her a cheese sandwich at night, and breakfast was at 7am. She had a very good time and was on her way, learning as she went, and knew if she could survive in London she could manage anywhere. She auditioned everywhere which gave her the chance to gauge the standard of those who were looking for jobs, unlike now when they come with scholarships, and she had to work it out for herself. She saw an advert in the dance centre for go-go dancers working in a discotheque in Paris for three weeks. The room was heaving but she was one of six chosen and found herself flying to Paris where they were put in a huge room with a shower in the corner. They danced every night on illuminated drums, so she walked by the Seine by day and danced at night and loved it. On their first night one girl was bitten head to toe by bed bugs when the landlady complained that she’d brought them with her from England! One day Petal stood in front of the beautiful Palais Garnier and was completely transported, knowing it was the home of the Paris Opera Ballet, and she thought she’d finish her contract, go back to London and find her ballet company. Meanwhile she bumped into Michael Brown, an old friend from Perth, in Earls Court Road. They’d danced together in The King and I as teenagers. He was fabulous and multi-talented, wrote, sang, danced and wanted to be everything. They became good friends and worked together, before being married in Brompton Oratory in Knightsbridge. A newspaper cutting, which Petal still has, noted that the bride was wearing a mini dress. She’d asked the priest about this beforehand. He was lovely and said it was alright so long as it was reasonably modest, but it was way above her knees. She often goes into the Oratory these days as it’s so beautiful and austere. She now wonders how they managed to get married in that amazing building as they were just kids, and it wasn’t easily available to everyone.

Her first ballet company was in Johannesburg and she really liked the idea because the rep sounded good with Coppelia, Giselle and diverts and she was intrigued to live there. She went in 1969 and stayed for two or three years and loved it all, travelling a lot including up to Rhodesia as it was then known. They danced at White River Ranch, stayed in rondavels where they were told white elephants had been seen passing along the river. One of the corps boys said he’d seen them but that was possibly the result of the grapes the previous night! It was an extraordinary time. Faith de Villiers trained her dancers to a high standard and demanded a lot from them all, and it was a big learning curve, not least because of apartheid. She was alarmed at the grotesqueness of it although not unaware as her father had told her when quite small about the ugly building on a local island which was a prison where aboriginals were kept. She didn’t understand why but knew aboriginal women were on the outskirts of the city looking bewildered and lost and it bothered her when young. Living in Jo’burg at that time was a huge education and she was very sad when black people weren’t allowed to see their performances which she found very difficult to deal with.

She came back to London and auditioned for London Festival Ballet. Class was very cramped, and she was bewildered but entranced and wanted to be there. Beryl Grey came in at the end, called her over and said I understand you’re auditioning, but you are way too small for my company and won’t fit in with my fairies! Petal was annoyed with her as she thought she’d be an asset to her company, but it wasn’t to be. At the time she was going to a teacher, Maria Fay, whom she adored, doing class in her dark, damp studio in Philbeach Gardens but said she couldn’t do six classes a week as she was ushering at the ABC cinema in order to make some money. Miss Fay said you must do the classes as you won’t otherwise be in peak condition to get a job. When you get your job then you can pay me. That generosity stayed with Petal all her life and she tries to do the same and be generous to dancers now. There was a company going to Canada whose class was very difficult so she thought they must be good, but she got a job and went to Winnipeg in the Prairies with a company of 25 and toured one night stands for 10 weeks. They went to every USA state, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Paris, London – all over the world. Because the company was small it was portable with a very clever manager, and she loved every second. She worked hard and dealt with the pace, working her way up the ranks. On opening night in Toronto when Prime Minister Trudeau and Barbara Streisand were in the Box, they were performing a programme of diverts and Petal was doing Corsaire pas de deux, solos and codas but when it came to the fouettes they just didn’t work. She was devastated, scuttled to her dressing room and shut the door. The director, asked what she was doing. Petal said she didn’t know but he’d seen her do them in rehearsal day after day to which his reply was ‘I don’t pay you 300 dollars a week to see it in the studio’. She redeemed herself on the rest of tour and had a wonderful time but the hankering for London returned and she told the directr she was going to leave, He was very angry and devastated saying he was going to make her a star in America. She left and, returning to London, went back to audition for London Festival Ballet. Petal found herself in a room of beautiful dancers but believed there was a place for her. She gave the pianist sheet music of various solos while the company were having a coffee break, but Beryl called her over and said she was so small and wouldn’t fit in the lineup of her fairies. Petal couldn’t believe it and felt she had a lot to offer but in consolation the other dancers plied her with cigarettes, telling her the company was boring and overworked and she should go somewhere else but still she wanted it. London was losing its warmth for her, and she felt she was becoming a complaining Aussie but thought she might try to audition for the Royal Ballet which was an audacious move. She was quite naive in one way but also streetwise, she had no fears, could take care of herself and knew what she wanted to do. Somebody told her to speak to Miss Iris Law who ran the ballet. She told the woman at the desk that she wanted to audition for the company when out of nowhere came Iris Law who said we don’t audition as all dancers come from the school, but Petal insisted she had experience and was a good dancer. They laughed about this years later. Iris said come tomorrow, she did class, and without knowing it she’d sneaked into the principal ladies’ dressing room and found herself in a studio with all the principals. She thought she’d died and gone to heaven, being among these beautiful creatures who’d hung on her bedroom wall. The ballet mistress floated by and asked her age but didn’t wait for an answer. After class she asked Iris if she could come back the next day to which she was told yes but don’t wear black tights. She found some pink ones, did class and that afternoon asked if Mr Kenneth MacMillan would come and see her in class. She was told to come again tomorrow. Halfway through the class in walked Kenneth and another man who turned out to be Peter Wright. At the end Peter called her over, asked if she was Petal and was that her real name? He asked where she trained, her age, did she have ancestral residency and where she’d been so she detailed her dancing history but said she would love to join the company and eventually be a choreographer and teacher. He spoke to Kenneth and they chuckled, so Petal felt as if it was going well. She’s talked about it with Peter over the years! He said we have an educational programme Ballet for All, where you might fit in very well, performing potted versions of the Royal Ballet rep. She immediately said yes and called her mother from a call box to give her the news. Her mother said Royal Ballet, you’re going to see Margot Fonteyn. On the road she became great friends with Derek Deane, Christine Aitken and others and they had a lot of fun with Alexander Grant as director on the road. After they finished, Peter offered her a coryphée contract and soloist after a year if it worked out. It did and she stayed for 11 years with what was Sadler’s Wells Touring Company.

Early on at her time with Sadler’s Wells David Ashmole came across from the Royal and, said Petal, there was no dancer who wasn’t aflutter as he was very beautiful and an extraordinary performer and dancer, the epitome of the British principal dancer and ballet prince, coached by Michael Soames, inspired by Rudolf Nureyev and Donald McLeary, who had learned how to behave on stage as a prince. Desmond Kelly, Wayne Eagling, David Wall and others of that generation had the supreme way about them so when the prince came on stage you couldn’t look at anyone else, it was no casual moment. She knew she would fall in love with him, which she did, and their relationship flourished, although at the time they were both in other relationships, so it was painful and difficult, but being on the road so much you become a very tight close knit family. Just before David died, he said how sad it was they hadn’t had children but she said they had thousands with all those they’d trained and they had remained with them. The ballet family is there for you and Petal has a very close relationship with her ballet family.

Memories from Sadler’s Wells. In those days touring was glamorous. They toured Canada and went to the Jaguar and Chanel receptions and nearly the entire company bought fur coats. There’s a photo of them all wearing furs including Peter Wright which would be unthinkable today. Then they were dancing in Australia for her family which was the first time they had met David. It was a particularly memorable trip and as they left David said we are going to live in Australia. He was completely smitten by the country though Petal had had no such intention, as she had moved to London, her spiritual home which had educated her and provided everything she needed. While they were there David invited the stand-in director Marilyn Rowe and Gailene Stock to a performance of Concerto and Marilyn said David would be a great fit for Australian Ballet but she was only interim director so unable to offer a contract, but they said they’d wait to see what happened. At this point Petal had already decided to retire and build a family. Back in London, Maina Gielgud contacted David, they met at the Savoy, and he came back saying the deal is done, we’re going to Australia. So, David joined Australian Ballet as principal dancer, and Petal joined Maina on the management team, teaching, rehearsing and coaching. They bought a beautiful big home in Melbourne in the hopes of having children. She choreographed a lot including Snugglepot and Cuddlepie, and Red Shoes and The Snow Queen for the school. Both were taken up by Singapore, and Snow Queen also by Hong Kong Ballet. She also made a pas de deux, La Favorita which is still in Australian Ballet rep. When she came back to work at the Royal Ballet School Petal continued her choreographic work for Gailene.

While they were in Australia, Michael had gone to San Francisco on holiday and on his return, he called her to say he was unwell, it was not good news, she knew about HIV/Aids and he said he was positive. It was a terrible moment as at the time there was no hope. Over the next couple of months, he became weaker and sicker while on the only available drug, and nobody wanted to be near. He had no family, and she was distraught about his future and she and David decided she would go to London where she stayed with him for a year as he deteriorated horrifically. She had to take him to the mission where Aids patients went. It was a terrible place, the gates of hell with little help, and Michael was unspeakably thin and dying of starvation. She felt very strongly to die alone was unthinkable, so she moved into his room. His sense of humour amused the wonderful staff and even though so ill he could still make them laugh. He took a long time to die, and this is why she feels strongly about dignity in dying as it was brutal. After he died, she arranged his funeral, sorted his affairs and packed up the house. David was with Australian Ballet in New York at the time, so she flew there, walked in Central Park, but didn’t see any of his performances which he understood completely. They went to Washington after the Met and then back home to Melbourne. They tried to become pregnant, but she lost the baby at 5 months, and they were devastated as it wasn’t as they’d planned. They decided to adopt a baby but in Australia at the time it was out of the question, they were way too old. Then they were told it might be possible at some point to find Indian twins. She was happy but David not so happy as he thought they may be unwell, and Petal’s own health was precarious following the loss of their baby so they couldn’t undertake that responsibility. They worked through things together and since have ‘adopted’ everyone’s children! Back in Australia David realised his career was ending. He loved it and being there was a very good thing for him, but he knew he was on his last leg and there were wonderful young dancers ready to get up and dance, with not much finesse but David was a very good role model for them. Glen Tetley created something for him and there was lots of new rep, but the cracks were showing and he knew it. One night going to see him at Sydney Opera House she met some dancers at the stage door who said David had left the theatre. At home he grieved very much for his career in a quiet way.  Unlike herself, he was never one to talk about deeper feelings, but he was deeply sad because he lost the thing, he was passionate about and was damned good at. But this is the nature of ballet and there is always an end in sight.

Petal felt spiritually lonely in Australia so came back to London on holiday and Gailene asked her to look at Year 9 at White Lodge. She saw the beautiful school and was taken to one of the studios where she saw Claire Calvert, Bethany Kingsley Garner and others, exquisitely beautiful with earnest little faces, and she left in a quandary as Gailene offered her a job at White Lodge. She suggested Petal come and spend a year with them and David agreed to her doing it to round off her career. Gailene was very smug as she knew the Year 9s would win her over! She taught at the school for 10 years, first at White Lodge and then Upper School. Her time there were the golden years, and now their former pupils are seen everywhere around the world, and she was the lucky teacher who had them. She told a couple of them only yesterday what a great joy it was but with massive responsibility for world talent, but the proof is they are all on the stage. She had a wonderful time and adored them, so it was an exceptional time in her life.  David came back, joined Maggie Barbieri at the London Studio Centre and was enjoying London life when he became ill. They went to Paris for a weekend and prior to that he had complained about backache but didn’t go to doctors saying he knew his own body. Then he had trouble breathing and thought he might have cracked a rib. Petal persuaded him to go with her to a GP appointment to talk about it. The doctor examined him, said he needed a scan and Petal should go with him. She sent them to Charing Cross Hospital and that night there was a call from the surgery saying come in tomorrow to see the GP.  They went in and that was beginning of his diagnosis. They returned to Charing Cross the next day for more scans, which showed a very aggressive cancer in the lungs, liver and bones and they didn’t really have an answer but could try some chemo. David said yes but only lasted a week and was so sick so came off it. Answering his question, the doctor said he had three months, and it was just three months and four days. They spent 10 weeks in Pembridge Hospice and Petal moved into his room, cocooned in their own nest until he died. It was very traumatic, and she remained traumatised for some considerable time afterwards. No matter how good the palliative care, not all pain can be arrested. You don’t want your family traumatised by your terrible death.

About seven years later, she started online dating as there was something lacking in her life, she wasn’t enjoying herself and felt miserable. She’s always been loved all her life and felt she couldn’t survive. Despite saying she was 70 so she couldn’t do on-line dating, a friend set her up on a website. She got into the swing of it, found it quite funny and fairly harmless and if not, she got out quickly. This went on for three months, she was having a laugh and felt she was doing something positive. Then appeared an architect called Simon Winstanley who had lost his wife and had grown up children. He seemed a lovely person, eventually they were emailing several times a day and he gave her his phone number and said to call him which she did straight away. He invited her for lunch in York, they each booked a hotel room, walked by the river, and had a lovely meal and he didn’t get to use his room! They fell madly in love and next day he asked her to go and live with him in his lovely house in Scotland.  She said she lived in London and had a job, but he said they didn’t have time to wait, he was in love with her, and she should come to live with him. Unfortunately, he got Parkinson’s and then cancer of the oesophagus. It was during Covid and difficult to get a diagnosis, but eventually they were told he’d have to come into care as she had been looking after him alone with no-one around and couldn’t carry on. So, it was hospital then the Alexandra palliative care home and again she moved into his room. They were told he had three months, but he only had three weeks. She chose very good men to love her, and she’s been lucky with them and her parents so she’s had a lot of love which nourishes you and gives the backbone to withstand the awfulness. You feel you can’t talk about it as it’s too shocking and you’re trying to shield others who should be supporting you. She would read other peoples’ experiences and how they dealt with their loss and grief and felt she must put her own experience to good use. Her therapist said ‘write’. The book came out three weeks ago and had a purpose. She is overwhelmed by responses from people she doesn’t know who say you’ve changed the way I think about what has happened. Now she is going to Australia in her old age to live with her dog in the sunshine. She’ll dabble with the ballet but also has a great-nephew with special needs and she looks forward to helping him.

David had read and encouraged everyone to read her book about ballet and how to deal with grief. What she says in terms of ballet students is so true. They are your children. He spends a lot of time in Cuba and recently Ramona de Sáa, director of Cuban Ballet School for 50 years, was asked before she died was she sad her dancing career had been so short but she said she had taught for many years and you live on in so many wonderful dancers that come after.

Unfortunately, Petal dropped out at this point but phoned David and said if members had questions to send them to David by email and he could forward them. She’s in London till December as she can’t take her dog until then because of quarantine rules.  But he offered her enormous thanks for being with us.

David signed off saying he hoped members had enjoyed this evening and thoroughly recommends Petal’s book.

Report written by Liz Bouttell and edited by Petal Ashmole Winstanley and David Bain.

© The Ballet Association 2024